Reading time

32 minutes.

TL & DR

• Recap of DePIN Day Singapore with 400 to 500 attendees and a growing cadence of ecosystem updates.
• Titan is delivering enterprise services today, including CDN, web scraping, and IP leasing, with easy swaps from traditional CDNs and cloud-familiar workflows.
• Fluence aggregates reliable CPU and GPU from tier 3 to 4 data centers, has six live customers, about 1 million ARR, a 9 million pipeline, and newly launched GPU support.
• Participation paths. Stake Fluence tokens to secure compute and earn, or contribute devices and bandwidth to Titan to earn from enterprise demand.

Companies involved: Titan Network and Fluence

Titan Network

It's just been a wrap up since the Singapore. Hope you all travel safe. Those who are participating in there and yeah, it's actually amazing to see so much density and content happening around DePIN in the last days. How is your arrival from Singapore, Tom?

Fluence

It was all good and for those here that weren't there, we, with Constantine's and Titan's help hosted our 12th DePIN Day and it's always great to do those.

We're consistently at 400 to 500 people attending those between the speakers, attendees and everybody else. And we're thrilled to kind of help contribute to DePIN Community by organizing them and people and projects like Titan Help sponsor reduces the burden on Fluence, so.

So thank you for your assistance in that and the whole DePIN community should be thanking you for your assistance in that as well. But. But we love doing that.

It's a great way, a great forum for everyone to get together and to connect and you know, we always are trying to get new projects to present and speak and get updates from kind of leading projects as well.

Titan Network

So try to kind of always create a mix of those two kind of agendas and I think we did that pretty well in Singapore.

Titan Network

Yeah, it was totally an amazing event. And for those who missed it, I guess the streaming summary is already live on the Fluence channel, so definitely go and show it some love.

I know there'll be more video content coming with individual speakers, which I always appreciate and it's amazing to see those things. And we're at Titan Network.

We're obviously looking for our talk, but also the rest, which were quite amazing actually in this time in Singapore. So I guess we have given our community a bit of an opportunity to kick it off. River, are you here with us today?

Titan Network

What's going on? How's it going, Tom? Hey, Konstantine, thanks for coming down to the show.

Titan Network

Yeah, it's amazing to see our third iteration of DePIN talks and I guess I'm giving the floor to you.

Titan Network

Yeah, I mean we can jump right in. I'd love to hear if either of you have any insights on something that stood out to you during your time in Singapore.

Any, any interesting developments in the industry or something that you know, you want to share with the community of what they should be looking at.

Fluence

Well, the one thing I'll mention and I, I'm primed to do this because I spoke about it in Singapore so it's a little bit of a repeat of people were there but the doubles the SEC opinion on Double Zero token saying that it is not a security is a very big deal because it basically enables DePIN projects or gives certainty the DePIN project set up to reward participation by providers.

Those tokens are not securities and I think we've always thought that but it was only, you know, nine months ago or so, right before Biden left office that the SEC came down very hard on Helium.

Titan Network

Basically saying the Helium project and its token was a security and that would have really impacted the DePIN space pretty negatively if that had held and that this is that kind of, that I guess position from the SEC was withdrawn but then this one came out which is a further explicit endorsement of it.

And so I think that you know, listen, we all want to see values go up, we all want to see huge traction but I think having some regulatory certainty is really terrific. I don't think anyone really, at least I certainly didn't expect to see something like that right now. And I was surprised and impressed that Double Zero with jump's guidance had gone through that effort.

Speaker 1

So I think that doesn't, you know, we still got a long way to go in terms of really building up traction for DePIN.

But I think that it's nice to know that we have this sort of regulatory backdrop that's favorable and explicitly so for depin.

And then literally that same week Double Zero launches Token and, and you know that's another big event. So pretty impressive kind of coordination and end note there.

Titan Network

Yeah, I totally feel that's an amazing adoption that we're all seeing and it's ultimately favorable for the whole of our industry. One other point which I personally found very exciting from Singapore is actually not within the DePIN space only but maybe some of you who are speaking here or who are listening here already using Grab on their day to day basis.

But for me Grab was a semi new app and what I have discovered is that you are capable of paying with crypto for your taxi and day to Day rides on grab already right now.

So some of the countries have supported and integrated.

Yes, you have to do another layer of KYC inside an app, et cetera. But we are seeing a mainstream media adoption where I can pay for my taxi ride with crypto.

Titan Network

And that's what kind of shows to me that all of this that we're building is inevitable.

And if like two, three years ago you were asking me like oh, is it forever staying with us? It would be still some questions. But here that's what really brings me confidence. Once we reach those channels, application sources, that's where we become so much more powerful in helping average people across the globe. That yeah, it's just up from here, I guess. So yeah, Those are my $0.02 from the Singapore event.

But believe me, there was so much more. And I see just recap attached from Fluence on top of this channel.

So yeah, it's been a lot of events happening there. It's super exciting.

Titan Network

Yeah, it's big news to kind of hear how the double zero tokens were deemed not a security. You know, that's definitely huge across the DePIN space as we kind of function in a system that utilizes that mechanic as well as this greater integration right across like let's say beyond Web3 and into the real world.

And I, you know, it brings us into kind of the discussion that we're looking at today and you know, moving towards from single. These single-purpose networks into more composable stacks. Right.

And how do we build those and what does that look like? And how do we come together as an industry and put that together?

Titan Network

And Tom, maybe I can ask you to explain a little bit from the fluence perspective, you know, what is decentralized compute for anyone in this room who's unaware and how does, how is that related to fluence?

Fluence

Sure. Well, thank you. And listen, I'll spend a minute on this because I do think it's important and centralized compute has a history have been trying to.

Titan Network

Yeah. And I guess that's another highlight for the ability to have decentralized compute and don't have a reliance one single source of connectivity wherever you are.

But give us a little bit of time for the highlights to go through.

And I definitely want Tom to tell the story on the fluence and highlight the importance of that connectivity or computer being more available. Hello. Hello.

Fluence

All right. Yeah. So you always have these fragility here.

But I guess what I was going to say about decentralized compute is that people have tried this for a while and there have been projects doing decentralized compute, attempting this for years.

We are a bit different, others are a bit different. So I got to give a little bit of context. So we are a decentralized compute platform. And what that means is that the compute that people use, and to back up even further, compute is all the work that goes on behind the front end of applications that we use every day that makes them work. Right.

When you're selecting a, you know, a ride on Uber, how's the ride? Price has to be calculated, the route has to be calculated, drivers have to be found like all that's compute.

Fluence

Just to sort of state the obvious, but it's important because nothing functions without compute. It's a vast market, but it's very sort of behind the scenes obviously.

And so with regard, that's the CPU compute and then GPU compute is obviously, I think a bit more easy to explain.

And we, I think everybody really expects that the GPU market to continue to increase. So that's what compute is. Decentralized compute is when you are using either CPUs or GPUs to perform the work, but you're doing it on a platform or a network that doesn't rely one individual company to provide it. Right. So you can go to Amazon and rent CPUs or GPUs.

Fluence

You're using compute, but you're using centralized compute. And that could be great. It could be cheap, it could have good services.

Most of them have very high quality and a big list of services because they've been working especially particularly with CPUs for, you know, over a decade in refining the product offering.

So the reason you don't what decentralized compute though is you're not relying on any one provider, which means if you want to change your provider, you can do so quickly, easily in an open network.

And what a lot of companies started off doing with decentralized compute was taking, trying to aggregate compute from individuals, excess CPUs sitting in their homes and maybe in some businesses. And that is a great solution.

It's just very difficult technically.

Fluence

And what Fluence has done differently is we're working with top tier data centers to aggregate their excess CPU compute. So it's effectively as reliable as performant and as high quality as the CPUs that top tier Web2 companies use.

This is something called like Tier 4 data centers, which are the most redundant, reliable data centers. And that makes life easier for us from a technical challenge perspective because it's using really high quality reliable CPUs and GPUs and you're working with very reliable underlying infrastructure as well.

So that makes it easier from both those sides.

Also makes it easier from a sales side because customers are much more comfortable just from an emotional perspective, even knowing that their computer is operating out of the same data centers that top tier customers are using already.

Fluence

And they don't have to take the leap of visualizing their businesses operating from someone's home PC.

And so, and what are the attributes of decentralized compute? First, one attribute is price. And so depending on kind of duration of contracts and discounts and lists, it can be anywhere from 80% cheaper to 10 to 20% cheaper. So it's significantly cheaper.

Also important is you don't have long term contracts and it's an open network. And so you're not locked into a particular network like you would be for an AWS or an Azure, etc.

And so the way I sort of think about it is you sort of come for the price and you stay for all the other attributes of that. And so that is what, and that those kind of components apply to CPUs as well as GPUs.

Fluence

And despite the demand we all see for GPUs, inevitably businesses have excess GPUs where they buy more than they need because they're forecasting demand or whatever it might be.

And so you have excess GPUs that people don't want to just sit and take up space, but would like to monetize.

And so they add them to a decentralized network, whether it's ours or whether it's others that are similar. So that's how I would kind of characterize what a decentralized compute platform is. And, and kind of the attributes of it.

And also just to be clear, you know, we're talking about, you know, tens of billions, maybe even hundreds of billions in terms of scale, in terms of how big this market is. Right. So these are huge markets.

Compute is huge. Compute is growing dramatically.

Fluence

Don't think it's slowing down at all and so I think that the great part about what we're doing with Titan's doing is we're targeting such huge markets. There can be many winners that are in the decentralized compute, decentralized cloud space.

And we could operate for years and never touch or even come into contact with the same customers. Given how the growth and scale of the market globally.

Titan Network

Yeah, thanks Tom, for that very detailed explanation.

I think it's, you know, super clear, you know, what decentralized compute is within the decentralized cloud space.

What, like what is Fluence doing in that space right now? Like you explained, you know, kind of where you fit in everything and how it's working together. And how is Fluence moving forward in that space in this moment?

Fluence

Well, so Fluence has a live offering of CPUs, so we have a serverless offering.

So you can basically, you can rent servers or pieces, you know, virtual servers on Fluence and execute compute that way. We have I think six customers that are live right now deploying workloads on Fluence. And to give you a sense, those customers are third party node providers primarily. And these are companies and businesses that run nodes on behalf of their customers.

We like this as a customer base because a lot of their expense is compute. And if we can save a business a lot of money on their main expense, that is an attractive vertical to approach.

The other sort of related are foundations related to L1s in particular that obviously run a number of nodes for their foundations.

Fluence

And again, when you're running nodes, you need a lot of compute. So those are. And so that's exactly where we are today is deploying workloads for these six particular customers.

This can, you know, our pipeline is about 9 million in terms of scale and we've kind of done about a million in ARR so far. So, you know, I'm expecting to kind of really ramp this up significantly over the next kind of two quarters. And the. And then we just launched and announced support for gpu. So our GPU decentralized Compute offering is just getting off the ground. The CPUs went from Alpha to beta. We announced that in Singapore.

We also now GPUs in Singapore. And so were about to onboard our first GPU customer as well.

Fluence

And that's obviously GPUs used for training models, which I think everyone kind of should have some sense of. Does that answer your question?

Titan Network

Yeah, absolutely. So how as a user can I get involved? Do I need Industrial grade infrastructure. Can I use my phone? Like what if I want to be part of a fluence community?

Fluence

Well, so there's a couple ways. So I guess importantly the compute as I mentioned is only from, you know, class four data centers. Maybe there's a class three.

So unless you are a operating a data center, I don't think you're going to be. You're not likely to have compute that is of the relevance for our network right now.

At some point we will open it up, but for the foreseeable future it's going to be top tier compute providers. Providers. But the distinction we have with others is that if you own a token you can participate because our compute is secured by tokens staked to the compute.

And so anyone that has a token can stake that token to compute. And that compute requires stake in order to be activated.

Fluence

And so again many compute providers, historically the compute provider was also the one who had to buy and stake the token.

Our model allows anyone to stake and if you do so, you earn either rewards, if that compute is kind of on reserve fluence rewards, or when that compute is activated and has a customer using it, you will earn a share of the USD, you know, USCDC, USDT payments that are going to that server.

And so I guess that means that anyone who owns a Fluence token has the ability to participate in this ecosystem by activating CPUs that run our network. And as of now, you know, we are very small, But I think 17,5% of our circulating supply is currently staked to the compute on the network already.

And we are going to have to ramp it up significantly as we scale.

Titan Network

Amazing. Sounds like I should run and continue staking my fluence tokens right now.

Titan Network

I love it, I love it. It's many ways to participate and you know, like you said, there's just so much potential here. You know, I think with that I'm going to segue over to Konstantine.

You know, storage, content delivery, compute, you know, all these different aspects of the decentralized cloud.

How are we as an industry kind of creating full stack solutions and how is Titan specifically helping realize that?

Titan Network

Totally. Well, first of all, I think that's we are kind of making that whole loop and it's an additional pleasure for me to have Tom from Fluence here speaking with us today because we are both coming from filecoin as an ecosystem one way or another or were closely attached to it in a previous point in time.

And initially all the DePINs that we had were trying to aggregate the infrastructure and then just provide access to that infrastructure so people can play out and figure out themselves what they're doing with that infra.

I think now this second or third iteration of DePIN that we are having today around us is more focusing not on just like raw bare bone infrastructure that you can toss and play around with. We are starting to focus more and more on providing services from that infrastructure.

Titan Network

So we are definitely maturing as a business, as an ecosystem, and we are also maturing as a layer of services that we are able to provide from our decentralized infrastructure in many cases.

So when it comes to Titan Network, we are also doing that leap from just providing the access to storage that we had initially to storage and compute, to storage and bandwidth that we are focusing right now to providing a full stack solution.

And I think today as of right now we're speaking Titan is capable of providing CDN services, Titan is capable of providing web scraping services and IP leasing services. And we are not anymore at the stage where oh here is our infrastructure, try to think of what could be done with it and maybe have benefit out of it.

Titan Network

But we are maturing as a business and providing to our enterprise customers complete full scale services.

And for that highlight, we are above 2.2 million ARR at the moment providing services to enterprise customers like TikTok who is renting our infrastructure, specifically CDN infrastructure to stream content for TikTok in different regions.

And isn't that an amazing journey that we all had to do in the web3 space where first were trying to just aggregate resources, trying to think of what could it be useful for.

Titan Network

And now maturing as a business, starting to provide infrastructure, services, cloud services and I guess over the period of time, as Tom rightly saying, we'll be also providing more and more services, uniting different projects together for different infrastructure, but really tailoring the ultimate service to our customer needs rather than just trying to find the low hanging fruits at like the earliest disposal of the resources that we can aggregate.

So for me this growth and this ability to unite infrastructure that we have, whether you have a mobile phone, personal computer, data center grade infrastructure or like IoT devices, all of this is useful.

Different projects are capable of creating additional value from the resources that are otherwise sitting idle.

Titan Network

And the whole motto for Titan Network from the day one was exactly to how can we utilize the vast amount of idle resources that are already available out and around about the globe, how those resources could be motivated and incentivized to create value both for their owners and for the ecosystems that they're participating.

So now I think we are more closer to that ability to bring the infrastructure closer to the people and find the value in each idle sitting device, whether that's an idle data center or an idle personal phone, where Titan can get the most out of it.

So with that I think we are on a very new iteration, maybe not even new, but we are maturing as an industry to provide services, cloud service on par with traditional Google Cloud, Amazon or similar ecosystems, but doing that in the Internet that is powered by people, on the infrastructure that is powered by people as well.

Titan Network

So let's put this into practice.

Okay? If I'm an enterprise or I'm a digital business like and I'm within this kind of AI boom that we're experiencing right now, how can I adopt Blockchain and DePIN like to create a full stack web service solution for my enterprise and my, you know, solution that I'm providing to the market?

Titan Network

I think that's where we are as an industry very close to one day integrations where you can easily switch, at least in the case of a Titan network where you can easily switch from your traditional CDN provider to using Titan nodes from people providing it all over the globe.

We use the same traditional standards that you're familiar with by using cloudflare or other solutions and by having this ability to switch from one place to another or as Tom was explaining in the very beginning, having an ability to take your compute from different types of devices, different types of infrastructure providers and don't worry which provider it really comes from as far as you're getting high quality service.

I think that's where we are creating new value for any type of business or enterprises, whether they are AI space, blockchain space or beyond.

Titan Network

We just providing you the ability to have better services, cheaper services in many cases that are as reliable as traditional cloud providers without the dependency on needing to figure out oh, which complexity of token payment, Rails and other systems do I need to use to really benefit from that. That's where I think the beauty of crypto and AI truly starts to shine.

And that's where a lot of different AI companies or blockchain companies can now start using GPU, CPU from Fluence team or they can use CDN or web scraping infrastructure for Titan Network and really augment their business models with larger margins in case we are providing them cheap alternatives for their cloud or even sometimes build their solutions fully relying on top of Fluence and Titan.

Titan Network

Maybe you can build A whole AI agent that scrapes the content, trains it on the models on the GPUs from Fluence and then streams it back via Titan nodes to the end customer.

And that new pipelines that we are more and more integrated into the traditional cloud space by DePIN alternative solutions is something that I'm super excited for. And here you can just go to any of our platforms, register, submit your requirements and then start using DePIN day one in your business operations.

Fluence

And I guess the one thing I'd add to what Konstantin said is that we got to be careful about conflating, I think, decentralization with blockchain. And if we think back, decentralization existed before Bitcoin and you've got apps, you've got things like just blanking on the, you know, the early file sharing applications, which were completely decentralized.

And so I think what we have done at Fluence is have built a decentralized solution that we think is very relevant for enterprise and we put the crypto blockchain piece on that just where necessary.

And that's necessary for us in terms of rewarding so bootstrapping the network. And so we pay early providers in tokens and it's set with a dollar rate, so it's just not an arbitrary amount.

Fluence

But there's a bootstrapping component of crypto and then there's a security thing of crypto security aspect of crypto where the nodes, you have to stake to the nodes or the CPUs or GPUs have to stake the compute in order to get trust. Because you don't have trust in a decentralized system.

Just magically it doesn't appear right. You trust Amazon because they've been building a business for decades and have spent billions on it. And you know there's something there behind it.

If you're going to do a decentralized solution, you need some trust level beside because you know, these people haven't been around nearly as long and you may not even know who's providing that compute. And so economics is what provides that trust. And then for us that is crypto staked to those providers.

Fluence

And so I think though, and there's obviously payments can happen as well via crypto. Now we also have a fiat front end, so we expect no business in this space to be able to scale if it doesn't take fiat. And so that fiat obviously can get converted into crypto.

But Ideally that is completely transparent to the customer who doesn't know it. So I guess what I'm saying here is that different than like a defi protocol or defi offering.

A lot of the stuff in the decentralized compute space is off chain because the compute is off chain because it just doesn't scale onchain compute. Smart contract based on chain compute just doesn't really scale level of what we need.

Fluence

And so we're using these services and using crypto economics and crypto security where relevant to enable these decentralized solutions to work and effectively enable DePIN to work.

Titan Network

Plus we also bring the transparency. I think that's one of the really things that enable people to shine and participate because we now make payments based on the transparent ledger that everyone can see and validate.

I have contributed X amounts of my resources. I have received a corresponding payment because it comes from the original renter of the resources. With this transparency all of us can now have less requirement and trust into a specific black box body like a traditional cloud provider and more just have confidence in what is happening on chain is actually what is happening in the real world as well.

So I think this added layer of trust, or I personally prefer confidence. There is even a whole argument in the blockchain space about trust versus confidence machines on like what do we really bring into the system by blockchain?

Titan Network

But without diving deeper into that, I think this having an ability to have confidence in the payout and output depending on what you're providing is a new feature that is really powering the blockchain applications to run cloud infrastructure and hopefully will power even more in the future.

Titan Network

So let's talk about onboarding and how do we bring people in and you know Tom, for example, for developers and enterprises kind of looking for these solutions, what is the simplest end to end service look like?

How can I get it from that side of things? How do I get involved? How easy is it for me?

Fluence

Well listen, it's. You got if you're. This is not for deployment by a kind of individual sitting at home that's not, you know, very literate. Right. This is divine for developers, for enterprises.

So we have. You can do fluent cli, right? Command line interface and that is a way to deploy fluence for sure that's one mechanism we have set up you also which is probably the first way we have it. And we also have a fluence console that you can navigate to and then use that console to choose and deploy.

Choose the compute. You're Comfortable with the pricing, the contracts, engage and enter into those contracts and then deploy your workloads. So those are I guess, ways to do it. And you know that's, I don't know, for some people that would be incredibly trivial.

Fluence

For others, not familiar, you know, that is daunting. But you know, I think everyone we're talking to, the way to deploy is relatively straightforward given, you know, this is targeting sophisticated compute users who are deploying compute currently using either centralized clouds or using some form of centralized clouds for whom the deployment is pretty similar.

Titan Network

I think that makes a lot of sense, you know, based on everything you said around kind of the level of infrastructure that's required for compute.

And it sounds like you've made it as easy as possible, you know, for these decision makers to say, hey, this is something that would be effective for us to use, especially from the value prop side of things.

You can save a significant amount, you know, from this side of the service.

Fluence

So, so that's true. I think that just to make another point on this though, there are always services to add and always enhancements to make both in use. So you can make, you can always make things easier to use and we can always additional services.

And so our initial offering is really, is, is pretty basic and you know, you cannot come out the gates and expect to compete at the service level of like an Amazon who has been putting billions of dollars into refining their product suite and usability over decades.

Right. So you have to be very realistic about what service you're going to offer, what product you're going to offer, who the target market is, success there to additional features and grow your addressable market over time. And that is, and that's what we're doing.

Fluence

And so I think that is, that's the way to think about it. And you know, we're going to be launching, you know, object storage that's coming soon.

There's a whole number of important kind of, you know, foundational, I think, products, features that will be added, I hope by the end of this year, the next couple of months.

And that will give us kind of like the basic product offering for compute. And then we will continue to add features as, you know, client demand, you know, as prioritized by client demand. I guess I would say.

Titan Network

Yeah, I think, you know, I think the industry is in a similar position. Right. It's, it's, we're building, right, and then we're using the necessary, you know, client based needs, right?

To kind of build on top of the core ideas and that's kind of helping facilitate moving the space forward without having to do, you know, ICO type events. Right.

We can become self sustained, you know, as these individual entities who are, you know, matching supply and demand and helping both sides while then you know, each new, you know, feature that comes along that's requested, you know, by the clients, allows us, you know, as an industry to continue to build aspect by aspect.

I think that's a great, you know, perspective to put on the industry, you know.

So I'll pass it over to Konstantine. What is it?

Titan Network

What is a good first day at Titan look like?

You know, what can the user set up, validate do and how would you recommend that they get the most out of the ecosystem?

Titan Network

Yeah, I think here on this. During this conversation today on AMA session we had quite a lot of focus on the enterprise solutions.

If we're speaking about enterprises today coming to the tighter network, what you can really benefit of already right now is a complete end to end service for the web scraping. Whether you just pass your infrastructure and solution requirements and then just get access to it on a very simple day to day basis.

You can also use CDN infrastructure that is also a little bit more sophisticated and requires a little bit more of deep dive and availability of your technical team knowledge to really integrate us with a day one.

But this is like same quality of services traditional node infrastructure provides for the CDN business.

Titan Network

So while maybe the interfaces, yes we haven't yet invested our billions of dollars into the infrastructure and availability for day to day users from day one. But our enterprise customers already can use services for CDN scrape, CDN IP leasing and web scraping to really build out on the quality and capacity of distributed networks that exist on Titan and I guess Lun's ecosystem.

So for us the simple day to day board for an enterprise customer be actually very similar.

And that's what I'm actually proud to say because making it as similar as possible to traditional cloud is a way to have an adoption from an industry to help them switching from one place to another and ensuring that the quality of the service or infrastructure will not be high harmed by choosing a web free alternative versus traditional provider.

Titan Network

Secondly, we also have a day to day for resource provider and that's where I think Titan shines the most is if you actually want to contribute the resources, whether you are a device owner, data center owner or hardware provider that looks to find more utilization for the devices or resources that they already have These type of opportunity is already here for you and is already possible for you to share the infrastructure almost from any type of device. You just connect your hardware with two clicks, two tighter network, share the resources and you are online providing infrastructure to enterprise customers across the globe.

Titan Network

That's where we think a lot of the movement is happening in the DePIN space or I personally find it the most interesting in the DePIN space as how we can simplify the participation without harming the quality of the services that we provide with Titan with simplification on the CDN side nodes data people operating inside Titan are almost the same infrastructure as traditional container architecture. So deployment is exactly in a very simple and technical terms. So that's where the opportunity for people onboarding is.

And if you need to do so, if you need to provide availability for services, we are here to help you and here to provide you services on power with cloud or even sometimes substituting the cloud services that we have.

Titan Network

So day of your participation like so simplifying if you are participating to provide resources, your day to day experience would be just join with two clicks, start running the infrastructure and that's it.

If you are participating from the cloud provider or cloud rental space, your day to day hopefully doesn't change too much. So you can also switch to Titan Network Day 1 but benefiting from the distributed services that we are building.

Titan Network

Let's, let's keep moving. So you know we've talked a bit about so far kind of what we're doing, where we are in the industry, what we're offering, how you can be a part of it, you know, and the whole goal of this is creating pipelines that kind of create this feel of one cloud, right? This, this success through decentralization like that's directly competing with this kind of centralized unit, right? The AWS's and things of that nature. So Tom, in your opinion, what should the Web3 cloud workflow look like for enterprises?

Fluence

Yeah, I mean listen, that's a very, that's a difficult question because there is not one, there's not one workflow.

But I guess what I would say is the answer in a relative basis and this is sort of super high level, but I don't know any other way to answer it, which is that it should be as simple as possible and most likely as similar to the cloud as possible because the cloud has been developing a workflow for quite a while and even if it's not the best is what the customers know and it's going to be Rare that you find a customer and a developer or a CTO or whatever it is that has not deployed on the cloud. Right.

Fluence

So I think you've got to have that in mind and just coming up with a workflow on your own because it sort of makes sense for Web3 is going to be, is going to only impair adoption.

And so this are very kind of high level answer but I think it's, it is the only one that makes sense effectively needs to copy the cloud workflow for whatever service, whatever kind of deployment you're working on and if you don't, you're going to have difficulties.

Titan Network

Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. It's not reinventing the wheel, we're just creating some new railway to work with, Right?

Fluence

Yeah, exactly. And to be clear, the clouds have spent decades and billions on designing what makes things easiest and best for their customers and have spoken to thousands of customers and taken millions of hours of feedback and have done all of that.

So I'm not saying it can't be improved upon, but they spend a lot of time and effort to get to where they are right now. Now can we eliminate some steps? I hope so. Can make things better. Great. But that's the starting place.

Titan Network

Definitely. And so I think maybe one of the challenges that I see right is okay, you know, the biggest benefit of decentralized flow, right. If, if we're taking aws for example, they have everything in one place and like you said, they invested all of this money and all of this time into creating these systems that are ease.

So that allows us to, you know, we can replicate that. We can, we can create that ease. But essentially our services are kind of decentralized across the industry. Right. So you know, if you want compu, you go to Fluence. You know, if you want, you know, storage or bandwidth, you can go with Titan.

And so what's the best way for us to inline align the incentives across the industry across these multiple protocols?

So it's like I'm getting points over here and tokens over there and I'm involved in, you know, eight different things and I'm juggling dashboards and how do we streamline that for people?

Fluence

Yeah, listen, I mean that, that obviously makes, it is a crucial question. I mean that's why we're to address that.

Fluence

You could have storage on filecoin and computer influence or Titan. You know, there's ways to do that. But we're also trying to add storage as well. And so I think you'll see different protocols over time, add different features to try to be a one stop shop. I don't. And not all are going to succeed.

And so it's going to be a question of who can succeed and either integrate the most seamlessly because what you love is if you were a fluence front end or a filecoin front end as an example, and then each of us worked kind of behind the scenes in the other.

So if it was a filecoin customer of storage first and needed compute, then the fluence integration underneath that could be transparent to the customer and vice versa.

For a fluence customer who needed storage and were using FilePoint, that's the, that'd be the easiest. That, that's kind of the best case scenario. So instead of, you know, so you effectively become a front end for other products that you aren't, that you can integrate and do not want to offer yourself.

That's the best case scenario. And I don't think, you know, we've seen some integrations like that, but I think you basically need to see a whole bunch more and at scale.

And the other problem is I think a lot of projects aren't quite mature enough and they're all. And so the integrations have to be closely monitored because they can break as the, you know, products underlying them continue to evolve.

Fluence

And that is, you know, that inevitably happens with upgrade cycles and other, you know, in traditional software, but I think it's happening faster in web3 given the complexity and given kind of the continual upgrading.

So I think, but big picture is that sort of front ending other services that you do not intend or cannot build or don't want to prioritize is probably the easiest way to, to do that.

And that way you're focusing more on the integrations and the customers than you are on building the additional features you don't have.

Titan Network

I think that's super insightful. I'm just taking notes right now because I think that is a really great perspective. Konstantine, I'm gonna throw it your way.

You knowing that and hearing the perspective from Tom, you know, what do you think should be one of the next things we have to do as a deep industry to accelerate this adoption into a mainstream kind of cloud?

Titan Network

That's an amazing question. I think Tom, you're pointing us to the right angle where one side you want to have a very reliable service provided to your enterprise customer.

Ideally end to end service that fulfills their whole need so that you don't have to rely on some projects, upgrading, failing or so you can have a complete business sense in collaborating with you to begin with.

On the other side, I think we all as an industry are still on the stage when we are in many cases not capable of providing the end to end solution. And complete cloud offering is obviously by far more sophisticated and complicated than any of the DePIN projects capable of providing.

Titan Network

One way as you're totally saying is we have to integrate more inside and provide more different type of services inside one package or one company so that our concrete offering could be end to end viable. Another thing which I actually am curious to hear your opinion Tom is would be building sort of pipelines for a service.

Let's say I know that let's say model training service is getting very big at the moment and if I am not capable of providing it by myself, I still want to participate in that side of the business.

Titan Network

If I can provide a component, maybe I should build a strategic group or conglomerate or partnership agreement for specifically providing that service with free for other DePIN projects where we focus not only one of our internal services but trying to get a package across three different solutions that will solve complete customers problems. So let's say use cold storage from filecoin, let's use Compute from Fluence and let's use content delivery and like last mile computer delivery services from Titan.

Titan Network

Maybe that's actually another way to go or address those challenges where each of the companies individually are capable of only providing the limited amount of services but industry as a whole are capable of much larger things and maybe by collaborating and building those pipelines altogether we can actually achieve greater goal for the next few years while continuously maturing inside to really have the full end to end solution in the future.

Fluence

I think though it's very difficult to do because someone has to own the customer, someone has to get that customer and then they are ultimately going to be calling the shots.

And you have to figure out how you attribute value according across these different services being provided.

And whoever is bringing that customer in is in is an imbalanced position in terms of power and leverage. And so I think the only way that works is if it's customer driven and a customer says I want to do this big project and I need you three guys to work together to come up with a solution. And I don't see that happening right now.

Fluence

I think we're all out there scrapping, getting the first kind of Web three customers and getting them to use and they're working on very basic services.

I'm going to test this here, I'm going to test this there. I'm going to do small scale this, small scale that. And what we're talking about here is a much more comprehensive solution that I just don't think the customer demand is there yet for that.

It will be there at some point, but I think customers now are much happier to, you know, or not even happier. All we can, all I think we're realistically getting in the next year or two are pieces, discrete segments of their business because they're just not, they don't perceive us.

Fluence

And I think they're right in being mature enough to have a more comprehensive offering, whether it's provided by a number of companies or one and will change. But I don't think that's, I don't see that happening in the near term.

Titan Network

Yeah, I think you both bring up really incredible and thought provoking perspectives on this. And you know, it's, it's up to us to kind of set that framework right and try to figure out how do we collaborate, how do we work together in this industry and how do we build the best solution in a transparent, trustless and fair way where all partners involved are receiving the value for what they're providing.

You know, we, I think we've talked a lot today and you know, this space, you know, has a long, has a long way to grow, but we've come a long way from the start. So thank you everyone for being here. I will pass it off to Konstantine and Tom.

Titan Network

If you have any final words to give to the audience today, please share.

And you know, thank you everyone who was here in the space and who's interested in supporting us, you know, these, our protocols and our community wouldn't be here without all of you and without all of those who are dedicated to making sure that, you know, these initiatives become a powerful reality in restructuring the way that the Internet works.

Titan Network

Awesome. Then just a few last words from my side as we are getting closer to our community and to the users. Definitely go check out what Titan Network is doing. You can install different types of applications to be part of the Titan ecosystem today.

Whether you want to install a browser plugin, application extension, you can do that with literally two clicks on almost any type of hardware.

And platform enjoy the benefit of contributing to the DePIN ecosystem and getting value when enterprise customers are using your infrastructure.

With that 2 cents I'm also happy to really thanks Tom for joining us here today. It's a pleasure always to talk with the Fluence team and yeah. Any last words from your side?

Fluence

Yeah, I guess what I would say thanks for inviting us. Always happy to be on and participate.

I also didn't want to have my last comment be such a downer because I guess the real point here also is that the big that you know, just to give you a sense, I think just doing decentralized third party node providers for Fluence could take us to 100 million in revenue.

Fluence

So like that's how huge these businesses and segments are here. So I just kind of want to make the point is that it's hard for people to grasp unless it's your day to day job, the amount of scale in these segments and how quickly they're growing.

And so that I think is the main point I want to make. And the next one is while you can't participate by adding hardware like you can in Titan, with Fluence you can secure the network and so if you own tokens you can stake it via parasail and that is a terrific way to really participate in the growth of compute, the growth of decentralized compute and actually help secure the network and be paid for doing so. So hope people can participate by doing that as well.

But thanks again for inviting me, and look forward to next Amazing.

Titan Network

Thanks, everyone. Have an amazing rest of your day wherever you are around the globe.

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